An ordinary day in NYC: October 2013

The Demise of Italy and the Rise of Chaos

Roberto Orsi

by Roberto Orsi

Future historians will probably regard Italy as the perfect showcase of a country which has managed to sink from the position of a prosperous, leading industrial nation just two decades ago to a condition of unchallenged economic desertification, total demographic mismanagement, rampant “thirdworldisation”, plummeting cultural production and a complete political-constitutional chaos.

In a previous post on this very blog, the dire situation of Italy’s economy has been briefly sketched. A few months later, the scenario of a serious disruption of the Italian state’s finances is building up, with tax revenues contracting 7% in July, a deficit/GDP ratio projected again well over the 3% mandatory threshold and public debt well over 130% of GDP. It will get worse. The government knows perfectly well that the situation is unsustainable, but for the moment it is only capable to resorting to an extremely short-sighted VAT rate increase (to a staggering 22%), which will depress consumption even more, and to vague proclaims about the necessity of shifting the tax burden way from wages and companies to financial rents, although the chances of this to be implemented are essentially negligible.

Throughout the summer, Italian political leaders and the mainstream press have hammered the population with messages of an imminent recovery (la ripresa). Indeed, it is not impossible for an economy which has lost about 8% of its GDP to have one or more quarters in positive territory. However, it is a profound distortion of elementary semantics to call a (perhaps) +0.3% annual rebound as “recovery”, considering the economic disaster unfolding in the last five years. More correct would be to talk about a transition from a severe recession to some sort of stagnation.

But unfortunately, like characters of a Greek tragedy, Italian leaders were deprived by the gods even of this illusionary and pitiful dream of a stagnation. Economic data of the summer months indicate that the economic downturn is far from being over.

A recent study indicates that 15% of Italy’s manufacturing industry, which before the crisis was the largest in Europe after Germany’s, has been destroyed, and about 32,000 companies have disappeared. This data alone shows the immense amount of essentially irreparable damage which the country is undergoing. In the author’s view, this situation has its roots in the immensely degraded political culture of the country’s elite, which, in the last few decades, has negotiated and signed countless international agreements and treaties without ever considering the real economic interest of the country and without any meaningful planning of the nation’s future. Italy could not have entered the last wave of globalisation under worse conditions. The country’s leadership never recognised that indiscriminate opening to Asia’s light industrial products would destroy Italy’s once leading industries in the same sectors. They signed the euro treaties promising to the European partners reforms which have never been implemented, but fully committing themselves to austerity policies. They signed the Dublin Regulation on EU borders knowing perfectly well that Italy is not even remotely able (as shown by the continuous influx of illegal migrants in Lampedusa and the inevitable deadly incidents) to patrol and protect its borders. Consequently, Italy has found itself locked up in a web of legal structures which are making the complete demise of the nation practically certain.

Italy has currently the highest taxation levels on companies in the EU and one of the highest in the world. This factor, together with a fatal mix of awful financial management, inadequate infrastructure, ubiquitous corruption and an inefficient bureaucracy, which includes the slowest and most unreliable justice system in Europe, is pushing all remaining entrepreneurs out of the country. This time not only towards cheap labour destinations, such as East or South Asia, but a large flux of Italian companies is pouring in neighbouring Switzerland and Austria, where, despite the relatively high labour costs, companies will find a real state cooperating with them, instead of sabotaging them. A recent event organised by the Swiss city of Chiasso (next to the Italian border) to illustrate the investment opportunities in the Tessin Canton was attended by a crowd of 250 Italian entrepreneurs.

The demise of Italy as an industrial nation is also reflected by the unprecedented level of brain drain, with tens of thousands young researchers, scientists, technicians emigrating to Germany, France, Britain, Scandinavia, as well as to North America and East Asia.

In sum, everybody in the country producing anything of value, together with most of the educated people is leaving, planning to leave, or would like to leave. Indeed, Italy has become a place for some sort of demographic pillaging from the perspective of other, more organised countries, which have long seen the opportunity to easily attract highly qualified workers, often trained at the expenses of the Italian state, simply by offering them resonable economic prospects which they will never see if they remain in Italy.

All this seems not to preoccupy the Italian political leadership. On the one hand, the country is the prisoner of a cultural duopoly: it is either the Catholic culture, or the socialist culture. Both are preoccupied with universal ambitions (somehow eschatological and increasingly anti-modernist) which make the national perspective unviable to them. Indeed, the Italian state was created by liberal-conservative and monarchist modernists, sometimes animated by virulent forms of anticlericalism, essentially the opposite of the current political elite. It is not surprising that what the former accomplished gets dismantled by the latter. The problem is not so much, however, the dismantling of the nation state, but that the nation state is not going to be replaced by any meaningful political project, leaving its space, essentially, to chaos.

On the other hand, Italy has entered a period of constitutional anomaly. Because party politicians have brought the country to a near-collapse in 2011, an event which would have had severe consequences globally, the country has been essentially taken over by a small number of technocrats coming from the President of the Republic’s office, the bureaucrats of several key ministries and the Bank of Italy. Their task is to guarantee stability to Italy vis-à-vis the EU and the financial markets at any cost. This has been so far achieved by sidelining both the political parties and the parliament to unprecedented levels, and with a ubiquitous and constitutionally questionable interventionism from the President of the Republic, who has extended his powers well beyond the boundaries of the still officially parliamentary republican order. The President’s interventionism is particularly evident in the creation of the Monti government and in the current Letta government, which are both direct expression of the Quirinale. The point here is that, where politicians have failed, bureaucrats and technocrats hope to succeed. The illusion, which many Italians are cultivating by believing that the President, the Bank of Italy and the bureaucracy know better how to save the country, is now widespread. They will be bitterly disappointed. The current leadership, both technocratic and political, has no ability, and perhaps even no intention, to save the country from ruin. On the contrary, it would be easy to argue that Monti’s policies have exacerbated the already severe recession. Letta is following exactly the same path. But everything has to be sacrificed in the name of stability. The technocrats share the same cultural backgrounds of the political parties, and in symbiosis with them have managed to rise to their current positions: it is therefore hopeless to think that they will obtain better results, since they are also unable to have any sort of long term vision for the country. They are actually the guarantors of Italy’s demise.

In conclusion, the rapidity of the decline is truly breathtaking. This is certainly not exclusive to Italy, as arguably most if not all Western countries are undergoing rampant thirdworldisation. Italy has simply less economic and social “capital” to burn in comparison to Germany and other Nordic countries. But it must be clear that, continuing on this way, there will be nothing left of Italy as a modern industrial nation in less than a generation. But just in another decade or so entire regions of the country, such as Sardinia or Liguria, will be so much demographically compromised that they may never recover. The founders of the Italian state one hundred and fifty-two years ago had fought and even died hoping to bring Italy back to a central position as a cultural and economic powerhouse within the Western world, as the one it occupied in the late Middle Ages and Renaissance. That project has now completely failed, with the abandonment the very cultural idea of having any meaningful political ambition going beyond the sheer day-to-day management on the one hand, and the messianic (but effectively pointless) universalism of saving the world on the other even at the expenses of one’s own political community. Unless some sort of miracle occurs, it may take centuries to reconstruct Italy. At the moment, it seems to be a completely lost cause.

This entry was posted in Italy, Roberto Orsi, Uncategorized and tagged austerity, brain drain, Corruption, mismanagement. Bookmark the permalink.

45 Responses to The Demise of Italy and the Rise of Chaos

lallo says:

October 11, 2013 at 8:25 am

L’Italia è messa malissimo. e’ evidente. Ma è tutto il mondo occidentale (sottolineo tutto) che sta estinguendosi. Alcune parti, per sopravvivere, si stanno sbranando le altre, ma il destino è segnato per tutte. La globalizzazione selvaggia, il capitalismo fuori controllo, hanno creato un motore di impoverimento dei paese benestanti destinato ad accellerare quando verranno al pettine i problemi ambientali globali (Fukushima, la desertificazione e la polluzione cinese). La realtà è che sopravviveranno i paesi capaci di realizzare una propria, indipendente, economia di sussistenza. Ma ancora oggi, nessuno si preoccupa di programmare politiche in questa direzione. Roma 2010 è dunque come la Roma dell’impero romano. Segnala il crollo di un intera civiltà. Allora ci volle poi un millennio per ricreare condizioni minime di ricivilizzazione. E Oggi?

Mario Antonino D'Aquino says:

October 11, 2013 at 10:45 am

E’ ovvio che la situazione italiana è presente in molti altri Stati. Su questo non c’è dubbio

Giovanni says:

October 11, 2013 at 7:11 am

Partecipo in italiano per evitare figure ma soprattutto perchè principalmente mi rivolgo a Voi “Cervelli Italiani” già emigrati .

Attratto da spunti interessanti leggo il tutto e mi si rileva una filippica triste e inconcludente. Scopro che l’autore ha origini italiane e da nuova coriosità proseguo leggendo i commenti … i più tristi dei quali proprio da miei connazionali.

A voi “Cervelli Italiani già emigrati”, o in procinto di , auguro buon viaggio e che possiate cogliere tutta la fortuna che i vostri nuovi paesi vi offrono.

In Italia rimaniamo noi italiani senza cervello, certi di regalare a tutto il mondo un Ri-Rinascimento, sicuri che ne apprezzerete la qualità solo a nostra morte sopraggiunta. ORGOGLIOSI di essere cittadini italiani senza cervello e consci che per giochi semantici quali ITALIA, EUROPA, MONDO non ne avevamo tempo e voglia perché altro c’era da fare.

nicola says:

October 11, 2013 at 7:44 am

Io invece penso che finchè molti italiani si rifugeranno in questa mentalità campanilistica, addirittura invitanto -un pochino offesi- gli altri “a guardare a casa loro” non ne usciremo mai.

Forse non è chiaro il fatto che in una situazione mondiale già complessa di suo, noi siamo il peggio nel peggio; non possiamo permetterci di fare i risentiti, men che meno di fare la parte degli inconsapevoli (cosa che già siamo fin troppo, se è vero -com’è vero- che in 25 anni almeno di vita politica abbiamo avuto sotto il naso e per scelta una delle peggiori classi politiche dell’età moderna, del mondo civile).

Giovanni says:

October 11, 2013 at 8:10 am

Condivido il suo pensiero, … anche perchè di campanilistico e offensivo il mio non ha nulla.

nicola says:

October 11, 2013 at 8:16 am

Penso che non sia difficile per i cervelli migrati, augurarci le stesse fortune, signor Giovanni…..

Più che i senza cervello, in Italia rimarranno sicuramente coloro che vivono in un regime oligarchico (credendo di vivere una democrazia), coloro che lavorano in una morsa monopolista (credendo di lavorare in un mercato libero), coloro che si cibano di meravigliosi frutti di una terra spesso irreversibilmente inquinata (credendo di alimentarsi nel bio-eden mediterraneo), coloro che versano mensilmente importanti somme previdenziali (illudendosi di ritrovarsele in tasca, perlomeno, in età senile), coloro che pensano le Istituzioni abbiano come “mission” la tutela del cittadino (venendo al contrario abbandonati dalle stesse), coloro che vivono nel rispetto delle norme (scoprendo poi che le stesse non sono finalizzate al miglior funzionamento civico, ma ad un mero gettito sanzionario), coloro che delegano funzionari politici alla tutela della cosa pubblica (e scoprono con troppi anni di ritardo, che gli stessi si ritengono autorizzati ad una sorta di auto-sistemazione personale), coloro che danzano e festeggiano felici sul ponte della meravigliosa nave Italia (senza accorgersi che il Titanic, a confronto, era una portaerei inaffondabile).

Il fatto è che il campanilismo spicciolo, mixato ad una buona dose di snobismo da nobili decaduti (ma tanto decaduti) non porterà da nessuna parte, soltanto contro un muro, altro che Rinascimento, signor Giovanni.

Non può esservi alcun orgoglio di vivere in una nazione totalmente monopolizzata dalle organizzazioni mafiose, altro che balle….

Giovanni says:

October 11, 2013 at 9:51 am

Sig. Nicola, il Marchese Felipe de Aragona la ringrazia del Bignami e mi suggerisce di sottolinearle:

in Italia rimarranno sicuramente coloro che vivono in un regime oligarchico (credendo di vivere una democrazia)

L’Italia non è riportabile alla Corea del nord ma oltre ai libri stampati il termine democrazia non vi ha mai trovato riscontro.

coloro che si cibano di meravigliosi frutti di una terra spesso irreversibilmente inquinata (credendo di alimentarsi nel bio-eden mediterraneo)

I sistemi di distribuzione alimentare e accordi farlocchi hanno reso praticamente impossibile trovare cibo coltivato in Italia se non spendendo 4 o 5 volte tanto e scoprendo poi che fa pure più schifo.

coloro che versano mensilmente importanti somme previdenziali (illudendosi di ritrovarsele in tasca, perlomeno, in età senile)

Nessuno che conosco vede le somme previdenziali versate come un possibile ritorno in età senile se non i complici delle attuali brutture in prossimità di pensione. Questi si sono poi visti spostare l’età pensionabile più avanti.

coloro che pensano le Istituzioni abbiano come “mission” la tutela del cittadino (venendo al contrario abbandonati dalle stesse)

“mission”, “target”,”HR”,”Controlling”,”Istituzioni”… funzionano solo nei pps aziendali ma già al loro apparire perdono fascino, figuriamoci nella vita reale.

coloro che vivono nel rispetto delle norme (scoprendo poi che le stesse non sono finalizzate al miglior funzionamento civico, ma ad un mero gettito sanzionario)

dover trovare giustificazione per rispettare una norma non stà in piedi.

coloro che delegano funzionari politici alla tutela della cosa pubblica (e scoprono con troppi anni di ritardo, che gli stessi si ritengono autorizzati ad una sorta di auto-sistemazione personale)

Oggi i cittadini che votano in Italia non sono neanche la metà della popolazione. (Stati Uniti e altri paesi citati in commenti e articolo hanno addirittura dati peggiori) Crescendo ho scoperto che chi ha aperto gli occhi in ritardo lo ha fatto mantenedoli comunque chiusi sul suo operato e ancora li tiene ben serrati.

coloro che danzano e festeggiano felici sul ponte della meravigliosa nave Italia (senza accorgersi che il Titanic, a confronto, era una portaerei inaffondabile)

questa è veramente difficile…aspe… il Titanic è certamente una meraviglia dell’ingegno umano…ma non stiamo discutendo di “Uccide la pistola o l’uomo che la impugna?” quindi mi arrendo.

Domenico Lombardini says:

October 11, 2013 at 7:01 am

Una congerie di luoghi comuni (che come tutti i luoghi comuni hanno un fondo di verità, ma solo quello), che non tengono conto della causa principe del declino di Italia (e sud Europa, Francia inclusa): l’adesione ai trattati Europei e alla moneta Euro. Noi stiamo facendo la fine della DDR (http://www.libreriauniversitaria.it/anschluss-annessione-unificazione-germania-futuro/libro/9788868300142) e di qualsiasi altro stato che ha ancorato la propria moneta, relativamente più debole, a una relativamente più forte: da qui la desertificazione industriale, da qui la irresponsabilità accentuata dei politici, i quali ora non devo far altro che attuare ciò che arriva da Bruxelles (o da Berlino). Che l’Italia abbisogni di una riforma morale è altro discorso, che non attiene al declino materiale italiano ma al declino umano, oserei dire antropologico di un paese e delle sue genti.

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Sara says:

October 11, 2013 at 4:34 am

I sadly agree…

The decadence of Italy is there..every single day..

we look astonished at the lost of culture, of democracy, of rights, of money (of course…)

In a few years, because of corruption and of the typical italian way of thinking “tengo famiglia” (I keep a family) excusing everything.. Italy is falling down at always lower levels.. and nobody feels guilty! (This is also typical..)

I think most of the fault is of journals and tv journalists, which are servants of corrupted parties and corrupted politicians and don’t alert people of the laws which are made against people, against free market, against rights…and always supporting our ruling class which is corrupted, in bad faith and terribly low level.. If you speak with most of our representatives in the actual Parliament they even don’t speak a correct Italian.. and we have a President representing 100% this ruling class..

Bad times..

In Europe they ignore this state of things .. maybe everywhere in the world the though is how to take advantage of this state of things..

because they always give new economic rules.. and don’t preteng / do ANYTHING about corruption in Italy..

They think to take advantage.. but if nothing will be done, we will infect also other countries.. Corruption is a terrible illness (think of Africa!!!)

Mario Antonino D'Aquino says:

October 11, 2013 at 10:36 am

We are european only when we give money to them or we should pay attention for migrants, but when we ask help they don’t help us and we’re not considered “european” anymore. In some parts of Europe we’re definied as “nigger of Europe” because of low civilization (according to them) but we welcome migrants, they not. But we are uncivilized and racist.. In italian: the case of the ox who say horned to the donkey

alex says:

October 11, 2013 at 3:56 am

It’s interesting to watch this virtual community of Italians that, just like me, have left Italy to invest their resources and succeed elsewhere. In short Italy is a joke, but not a funny one any more. Keep up the good work everyone

Gigi Parigi says:

October 11, 2013 at 12:24 am

é curioso: per leggere delle interessanti analisi sulla situazione italiana bisogna andare su un sito inglese.

come si spiega?

Mario Antonino D'Aquino says:

October 11, 2013 at 10:39 am

La situazione italiana la puoi capire benissimo leggendo La Repubblica o il Corriere della Sera o Il Fatto Quotidiano e via di lì. Mi piace però come all’estero puntualizzino ed evidenzino meglio i dettagli

Valter Mura says:

October 10, 2013 at 9:31 pm

Penso che un po’ tutto l’occidente debba pensare al proprio declino, compresi quei paesi che oggi, come diciamo noi ancora galleggiano su questa dannata crisi, magari camminando sulle teste di qualche altro un po’ più sprovveduto. See you soon ladies and gentlemen

paul simon says:

October 10, 2013 at 8:27 pm

Very sad truths.. unfortunately the thought of a federal Italy has been around since the 1800s to no avail (geeks may read Carlo Cattaneo, etc. ): way too intellectual in a place where the hottest selling newspaper was Gazzetta dello Sport until I left in 1994, I am afraid…

Much better we leave it to the Germans and the IMF to run the country after the unevitable default, soon to happen, and focus the incumbent remaining population on mozzarella, good weather, “tette al vento” and vacations, after all, until global warming really kicks in, it still is the Florida of Europe.

I would die to have a chance to vote Merkel to run it, after assuming our public debt, which Germans just deserve for winning the FX wars and sucking up our spending power dry while our leadership was having dinners & after hours with talented advisors such as the Sandra Milos, Moana Pozzis, Nicole Minettis, etc.

Merkel for president is practical, doable and largely preferable to let anyone else in sight show us more of this shame…

I left the country with top grades from a prime university as I could not find a job to pay the rent….I do not regret a single day missing to help the D’Alemas and Berlusconis, the Fondazioni Bancarie, the Ndrine, the Lay Lombard missonaries with altar-embedded motoryachts of Comunione e Tangentone, plus all the countless mobs prosper off my back and that of my family.

Do you realize Italian medias show shoes of drowned baby immigrants every day and NOBODY talks about chasing the criminals who brought them here?? Why can’t they buy drones to shoot them in Lybia like Obama, or shoot their patrons in some province of Italy where the mobsters probably sit comfortably watching their pre-paid one-way shipping accomplishments unharmed. Why does Italy need F35s if they do not know how to use them?

What are they doing with the radars of the military marine and aviation, looking for the Costa Concordia still, or the Itavia-jet near Ustica since the 1980s??

Until the “cultura della furbizia” is done with for good, Italians deserve to enjoy what they created, most of them, from the grocery store merchant to the largest family fortunes, played the same game at different levels of the food chain and they will harvest what they planted. Radetzky march!!!

Beppe Caravita says:

October 10, 2013 at 7:56 pm

The long story of Italy show:

1. Fragmentation has been a clear failure;

2. Centralized state has been a clear failure (except, for a while, roman empire).

In the middle?

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Paolo says:

October 10, 2013 at 6:55 pm

The demographic and cultural conformation of Italy is really not that different than any other country in the world. Can anyone say Germany is a cohesive country with its north south and now east west cultural and economical differences? Great Britain which already recognized its diversity by adopting the name UK (a collection of smaller, often disagreeing kingdoms)? The US, made of people from all over the world? Brazil, with a plethora of ethnical, cultural, linguistic differences? China, divided by language, religion, ethnicity and economic rifts? Syria anyone?

No one country, no one region, no one city, no one family can describe itself as truly united and cohesive.

The problem of Italy is indeed moral, cultural, strategic and pragmatic. The corruption of its ruling class has become PAINFULLY clear. The country is in the hands of a “PUTTANIERE” and its “LECCACULO” (please forgive me, it must be said), while its few true dedicated servants languish in a quagmire of rules, bickering and plain and simple stupidity.

This is why I left, 20 years ago. I saw it coming and I wanted nothing to do with such immorality.

Italiani, sollevatevi, ribellatevi, riprendete la vostra DIGNITA’.

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Dott. Giuseppe Ortigoni says:

October 9, 2013 at 12:49 pm

“The founders of the Italian state one hundred and fifty-two years ago had fought and even died hoping to bring Italy back to a central position as a cultural and economic powerhouse within the Western world, as the one it occupied in the late Middle Ages and Renaissance.”

And that, dear sirs, is the issue. Italy, as such, never has been anything. Not in the Middle Ages, not in the Renaissance. Simply because, as such, Italy does not, nor ever did, exist. And the very invention of Italy was a political manoeuver, based upon no solid demographic, economical or cultural elements whatsoever. I’m sorry but, there is no “Italy”. Italians have nothing more in common than, say, a French and a German do. They might appear a “unit” to a foreigner’s eyes, but just as much as all Europeans are similar to, for example, Asian people.

Let me be absolutely clear on this: there is no Italy. There is no shared sense of pride, culture, or anything. We are just a bunch of regions, with the most different and often radically opposite historical, cultural, linguistic, demographic backgrounds, that were forced to live together under one name. Just like Europe, but way more forcefully.

And to command this cattleship, a series of central government that were no more than puppets and thieves at best, they knew there was no Italy, there was no future for the political construct, so they saw fit to grab as much as they could while they were in office. Can’t really blame them there, anyone would, if given such a hopeless task.

Let me reiterate: there is no real Italy. Disregarding how uniform the stereotype of “Italian” culture might look to foreign eyes (and such stereotype is based on a very small demographic sample of the Italian population, and limited to a very precise geogrpahical and cultural context), there is no such thing. There is no shared Italian culture, cuisine, history, geography, climate and what the hell, there is not even a generally accepted Italian language.

There is no Italy. It is time that the world (Italy included) starts to realize this.

nanci says:

October 9, 2013 at 11:30 pm

totally agree. we don’t even like each other. Lombardy’d rather be with Swiss, for instance. Sardinia is not Italy. they never wanted to be.

anyway, I’m so sorry. we can’t explain how or why Berlusconi has been in charge for 20 and is still around. foreign friends ask me and I don’t know what to say.

I’m so sorry, sad and a bit ashamed. I’d love to be proud.

Paolo2 says:

October 10, 2013 at 9:27 pm

Berlusca hasn’t been in charge for 20 years. It has been for more or less ten; same as the left ex comunist.

Anyway I can easly explain why Berlusca has been in charge for so logn:

Berlusconi exists because the ex-comunists exist too. And they are so pathetic and brainless to force the majority of the normal people to vote everything, even a monkey if the case. Only to prevent people with foolish and absurd ideas to be in charge.

The federal project was proposed by lega nord, but that party and his projects were rudely opposed by the left; with their “trinariciuti” (threenostriled, with three nostrils to smell better the wind of public opinion) politicians accusing them of racism.

Then that party rotted away along with the puttaniere.

Enrico says:

October 11, 2013 at 12:26 am

I might have an answer on why berlusconi has been in charge for 20 years (and Italy has totally failed in the contemporary socio-economic development): because MEDIASET AND FININVEST have been in charge (of italians’ brains, eyes, hears and mouths) for 35 years. Everybody’s’ Brains! Mine and yours included. When cultural models are disastrous for 35 years, then economic, industrial and investment decisions are a disaster as well. They just mechanically follow. So If somebody ask me if it has been the television (and the cultural models in general) the principal (not the only one! But the main one) reason why Italy is currently in this state my answer is: YES without a doubt. I’m maybe naive, but that’s what I’ve always thought and that’s what I still strongly think.

Mario Antonino D'Aquino says:

October 10, 2013 at 1:35 pm

I totally agree with you. Expecially when you said: “Let me be absolutely clear on this: there is no Italy. There is no shared sense of pride, culture, or anything. We are just a bunch of regions, with the most different and often radically opposite historical, cultural, linguistic, demographic backgrounds, that were forced to live together under one name. Just like Europe, but way more forcefully.”

We must start to realize this: we are italics, not italians. I’m sicilian italic, Lombardy is lombardian italic etc. I wrote an article in italian where I spoke about this —> http://corrieregiovane.blogspot.it/2013/10/e-meglio-fare-gli-stati-uniti-ditalia.html.

Do you think it’s time to do the correct Italy, the “United States of Italy”? I think.

Mario Antonino D'Aquino says:

October 10, 2013 at 2:00 pm

It’s like Spain, andalusians, catalans, basques: they are not spanish, they are iberians

Dott. Giuseppe Ortigoni says:

October 10, 2013 at 2:16 pm

In my opinion, it’s not much a matter of denomination, as much as a matter of “should not be together”. There really is no reason to consider the Italian regions as one single sovereign state: the fact that such a construct has been invented and imposed should not be grounds for further speculation, and the fact that said state has failed at everything since its invention, should be proof enough of its inadequacy. No other European country has racked up such an astonishing amount of fails under every possible respect: economy, wars, demographic, culture, instruction, corruption, and whatnot. Italy has failed at every possible meter of judging a nation, many a time: it should be indicative of something wrong at a deeper level than “just” mismanagement and corrupt government.

Mario Antonino D'Aquino says:

October 10, 2013 at 2:33 pm

“United States of Italy” is NOT just a denomination, it’s a new way for Italy, a federal republic. In my opinion, USI is a great idea. Every single Regions govern itselves, what did they do after Italian unification? USI should be already done in 1861 because it was (and it is still) the best thing to do. This is the truth

Mario Antonino D'Aquino says:

October 10, 2013 at 5:02 pm

Maybe we have two difference ideas for “Italy”

Valter Mura says:

October 10, 2013 at 9:09 pm

Holy crap, this is what we italian are :

quarrelsome & ashamed of our country.. Congratulations to all Italians here around, that’s what the world wants to know about us (bravi)

Mario Antonino D'Aquino says:

October 11, 2013 at 10:19 am

Nope, you’re wrong. We’re not ashamed of our country, we’re discussing about a way to have a better country by a different type of government. What do you think, we want a not united italy? That’s not the discourse.

Federico says:

October 10, 2013 at 5:40 pm

I agree with you, Italy is just a name, but there is not a real sense of a nation, and that is perfectly natural if you see the history of our country, that is much much younger than every other western state of Europe… after all Italy is just 150 years old!

You speak of regions, in many cases I would tell provincies as, for example, in tuscany, where I live, every province has a different culture and you cann actually feel it and see the difference, The fact that there is no war anymore doesn’t mean we became a nation all of a sudden. Making a central and one state of the peninsula has been a real big mistake.

But right now, in this historical period, is maybe too late to propose something as a “USI”. That is because the first “italians” are starting to appear, people till the age of 25-30 are starting to feel italians, so probably, in a couple of generations, there will be a wider italian feeling across the nation (if it will still exist).

Anyway something as a federal state for Italy, or a similar type of government, could be the only solution to come out of this chaos. Every region/province is so different now that NEEDS a different type of managment. But I strongly doubt that something like this will ever happen.

Mario Antonino D'Aquino says:

October 10, 2013 at 7:27 pm

Totally agree with you. I made every summer 1.200 km Catania/Bergamo by car and I see the huge differences between Sicily and Lombardy, not only economic, in history, mentality, do business, do agriculture, etc They have different way of life. Tuscany is totally different, such as Trentino or Sardinia or Liguria. In sum, every Italian Region is totally different with the others. And i feel the differences.

I think USI is not too late, yeah sure it should had been already 152 years ago but i think now it’s the perfect time to show federal Italy is much better than the “united” Italy. I hope that the Government with the open poll of Constitutional reforms could realize that the future of this country is one: United States of Italy.

Mario Antonino D'Aquino says:

October 10, 2013 at 7:32 pm

Every Region is able to govern itself, such as every City is able too. It’s time to watch to the American model of Government.

max says:

October 10, 2013 at 7:47 pm

Sure, Italy is a large country with a lot of regional differences. But the same could be said for Germany, where the Bavarians are proud of not being Germans. Still, Germany is the leader nation in Europe and in the world. And looking to the USA, New Yorkers, Californians, Texans feel being very different from the rest of the country. Not to mention the British.

So, looking at those other countries, the arguments telling that the Italian crisis is due to Italy’s lack of homogeneity have no real grounds.

The real reason for Italy’s crisis is in the fact that the majority of Italians have accepted corruption in the government and government’s contiguity to organized crime as a “fact of life”. This has led to a series of extremely incompetent and short-sighted governments which have spent public money extremely inefficiently, with consequent explosion of public debt.

The only viable way forward for Italy is that the majority of Italians realize that only the pursuit of the public interest leads to a healthy and prosperous society. Until then, the country will continue on its way to Greece.

Mario Antonino D'Aquino says:

October 10, 2013 at 8:31 pm

Yes but for example Germany and USA are federals, Italy not.

max says:

October 10, 2013 at 10:29 pm

20 years ago when Italy was a global economic and cultural superpower, it was not a federal nation, so the issue of being federal or not seems to me irrelevant to understand the reasons of the crisis and how to go out of it. Frankly, I don’t care.

What is different between the 80′s and today? The PUBLIC DEBT: today Italy has a public debt of 130% of the GDP, i.e. ~5-6% of the GDP every year are used to pay interests on the debt. That enormous amount of money is taken away from the real economy to fuel the global financial speculation. Without the public debt, the state would be able to invest that 5-6% of GDP in the public interest. Imagine what could be possible to do with that amount of publicly invested money.

Why have we arrived to this situation of unbearable debt? During the ’80s corrupt and inept politicians did two critical things: 1) separation of the Italian central bank from the ministry of finances, and 2) privatisation of public banks. The public banks owned the central bank, so their privatisation implied to the privatisation of the central bank.

When the state owned banks, the public banks massively purchased public debt, keeping the interest rates low and virtually at zero cost. If the public banks lend money to the state it is like moving your money from one pocket to the other. The debt is only virtual.

With the privatization of banks the situation has changed, leading to the situation we face today. Money is not moved from one pocket to the other, but is given mostly to financial speculators who don’t care about public interest, healthcare, pensions, education.

By coincidence, Germany has not privatised its public banking system, so it keeps on taking advantage of massively lending money to itself, thus keeping the public debt under control and not draining huge amounts of cash from the real economy towards the financial speculation.

Dott. Giuseppe Ortigoni says:

October 11, 2013 at 9:18 am

“20 years ago when Italy was a global economic and cultural superpower, it was not a federal nation, so the issue of being federal or not seems to me irrelevant to understand the reasons of the crisis and how to go out of it. ”

In 1993 Italy was definitively NOT a global economic or cultural superpower. I’m not really sure on which basis you claim this. Yes, the media made you guys believe so, but the foundation of the current social devastation were there already, growing, and nobody really cared.

Mario Antonino D'Aquino says:

October 11, 2013 at 10:14 am

Has Italy never been federal? Never. The federalism introcuded by Northen Lega is not a real federalism, is a fiscal federalism. Real federalism is the USA model when every single Region has its own rules, its own laws, its own bureaucracy etc

Luigi says:

October 10, 2013 at 8:15 pm

Non sono d’accordo, per il semplice fatto che questo discorso, vale per tutte le nazioni del mondo. Ogni stato è composto da tante culture, diverse, lingue diverse, l’Italia ha la particolarità che è stata governata negli ultimi 20 anni da persone totalmente incompetenti. Luigi

Mario Antonino D'Aquino says:

October 10, 2013 at 9:03 pm

Questi “ultimi” 20 anni sono strumentali. In realtà facevano vedere dei dati internazionali come il declino italico è sessantennale in termini di sviluppo e di PIL

max says:

October 10, 2013 at 10:34 pm

Scusa, ma la storia del declino sessantennale non mi quadra, si andrebbe indietro all’inizio degli anni cinquanta, quando l’Italia era appena uscita con le ossa rotte dalla guerra.

Mario Antonino D'Aquino says:

October 11, 2013 at 10:11 am

Appunto. I dati dicevano che il rapporto tra crescita e PIL si é abbassato sempre più dal ’52 al 2012.

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